Archive for the 'Grantsmanship' category

On resubmitting unfunded A1 NIH grant applications

Apr 08 2014 Published by under Grant Review, Grantsmanship, NIH, NIH funding

Well, well, well.

The NIH limited applicants to a single revision ("amendment", hence -01A1 version) of an unfunded "new" grant submission (the -01 version, sometimes called "A0") in 2009.

This followed the action in 1997 to limit revisions to two (see RockTalk chart), which hurt PIs like Croce and Perrin. (Six revision? Wow, that is some serious persistence guys, my hat is off.)

I wasn't really paying attention to such matters in 1997 but there was some screaming in 2009, let me tell you.
Delusional Biomedical Researchers Seek Repeal Of Arithmetic
More on the new NIH policy on grant application revisions

Initial outcome of limiting NIH apps to a single revision?


NIH re-evaluating ‘two strikes’ rule – Updated

Crocodile tears from experienced NIH investigators over the discontinued A2 revision

I don't know how many people actually got stuck in the filter for submitting a A0 that was too similar to their prior, unfunded A1. I heard of a few, so it did happen. On the flip side of that, I've sure as heck been putting in more than two versions of a proposal which is designed to fund the same area of interest in my laboratory. I have not yet been flagged for it. My initial reaction that any PI who has an ounce of creativity ought to be able to come up with a credible alternative take on their project is still my current take.

Nevertheless, rumor has it that changes are in the wind.

Pinko Punko made an interesting comment on the blog:

DM, I heard the craziest thing today- the possibility of removing the "substantial revision" criterion for new A0 related to previous A1. Supposedly announcement soon- I was kind of surprised.

This was news to me but I have heard things from about five independent sources in the past few days that tend to confirm that changes are being considered.

The most consistent rumor is that new grants will no longer be checked for similarity to prior unfunded proposals. They will be called new grants, but there is no apparent reason for this. In all ways I can see, this is going to be a return to the days prior to 1997 where you could just endlessly revise until the study section relented.

The supposed benefit of reduced "time to award from original proposal" is now going totally by the wayside. I mean, the NIH will still be able to lie and say "look it was an A0!" if they want to but this is even less credible.

More dangerously, the will of study sections to endlessly queue applications will be released from whatever tepid effect the A1 limit has produced.

This is a very BadThing.

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whoa. I found three A7 projects. All three are competing continuations. I can't EVEN....five and six year apparent funding gaps for two of them. The other I can't work out why there is no apparent gap in funding.

28 responses so far

Sharing (in science) with people you don't particularly like

Mar 24 2014 Published by under Academics, Grant Review, Grantsmanship

The Twitt @tehbride raised an interesting mentoring question:

 

As you are likely aware Dear Reader, due to the accident and intent of where I tend to sit on the scientific spectrum, the scooping type of competition is not a huge part of my professional life. That is, I have managed to get by to this point by not being terribly afraid of people knowing what I am working on or what I plan to work on. Part of this has to do with playing at a level of publication that is not obsessed with the very first person to demonstrate something. Part of it is selecting research questions that are not densely populated with dozens or scores of other laboratories trying to scratch the same flea. Part of it is my overweening and misplaced self-confidence that we did it better, dammit, so who cares who published first.

 

Part of it is pure wrongheadedness on my part, no doubt.

When it comes to grants, specifically, I was always around people who were reflexively generous with sharing their applications when I was a late-postdoc and an early-career faculty member. As time has gone on and more people are asking me for my proposals than I feel the need to ask, I have given mine out to anyone who requests them. (Usually with a little lecture about how my "successful" apps are no more informative than my triaged ones, of course.)

So take that into account.

On a purely tactical level, it is possible for the postdoc in this situation to simply refuse. We can extend this to PIs who are asked for their successful grant applications. You can just say no.

It seems to me to be unwise to do so, particularly when it comes to an application that has been successful. Even if you cannot stand the person who is asking. It just seem churlish when the cost to you is so low.

Is it going to give this person ScienceEnemy little boost ahead? Sure. But remember, the odds of funding are still very steep. So it isn't like you are handing them an award. They still have to write a credible application. And get lucky. So why not*? It costs you essentially nothing to email over your application.

On a strategic level, this person could be your colleague in science for a long time. They could very well be in a position to review you and your work, particularly if they are in a related area of science. And even if they annoy you, it isn't necessarily the case that they have so much as noticed. Lots of annoying people are kind of unaware... So why make an enemy?

And there is one more thing to consider. If you act within a professional capacity on personal whim and dislike, what does this say about your behavior as an objective peer reviewer? Shouldn't you be able to set aside personal dislike to effectively review the scientific content of a paper or grant proposal? Yes, yes you should.

 

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*Now, if you think the person is a data fraud or something...well that is entirely different.

13 responses so far

Something you'd learn in business school?

erickttr observed:

I notice that you go to RePORTER for information to help solve mysteries and gather data and strategic thinking respecting grant strategies and for a feel for national trends. Do you ever bring this up in conversation with POs? For example, "I noticed in RePORTER that only 5 R01s have been funded from this PAR, none from my IC of interest (which had a part in creating the FOA) .... what's up with that?" Or is that too .... something ... seems like something you'd learn in business school .... not grad school (where we learn to pipette and run gels).

The things that I talk about on this blog are things that I learned, sometimes the hard way, as a faculty level scientist who was expected to land major research grants to fund his laboratory. A few things I picked up as a postdoc, but my education really accelerated after my career world said "Okay, show us what you can do, junior.".

Much of what I relate to you I learned in bits and pieces over a very long period of time. Just this very month, btw, I learned yet a new wrinkle on NIH behavior when it comes to grants. I am always learning new stuff.

Obviously, I think it is imperative for my continued career existence that I keep my head up about where the lab's funding comes from. I blog because I think you Readers should do so as well. Most of this stuff isn't rocket science, just information. Information that you will over time come to value, information that you will find to be incorrect for your situation and information that may never be of use.

It is my belief that the more academic folks who plan NIH extramurally funded careers know about the NIH system, the better for them. And even grad school isn't too early to start to pick up the basics.

When it comes to Program Officers and, yes, Scientific Review Officers, my answer to erickttr is a simple "Heck yes!". Even people who are part of the system don't necessarily know everything about the system. Not even "their" piece of the system!

You may recall my various frustrations over the years with aspects of the NIH system that participants in the system seem to ignore. Rockey's assertion about PhD job prospects. The amazing discovery that NI awards, prior to the invention of the ESI category, were going to highly established PIs who simply hadn't been NIH funded yet. Program Officers who told people in soft-money jobs that "well, that's not a very good job, you shouldn't be taking those". POs who tell investigators they just need to "write better grants". SROs who were entirely unaware of the A2 traffic-pattern effect as it was developing ("What do you mean this study section rarely funds A0 applications?")

The list goes on and on.

Areas of scientific study that are woefully underfunded by your favorite IC are no different. YOU, scientists, serve an educational purpose. You do this by virtue of the grant applications you submit. You do this by virtue of the reviews that you supply when asked to serve on study section. You do this in your annual Progress Reports.

And you do this by chatting up your friendly POs on the phone or at scientific meetings.

Part of your argument can be derived from RePORTER. Of course. Particularly when you want them to fund you to do X and there are hardly any grants funded on X at the moment. Maybe you can point to a study section which should be handling X but never seems to let any proposals out with a fundable score. Who knows, maybe you will eventually get a Program Announcement or Request for Applications funded.

Go RePORTing folks.

Addendum based on this (wisecrack?) comment from SidVic.

You are poorly served by these idiots, and it is shameful that the NIAAA portfolio doesn't contain at least 4-5 projects addressing x and z. Hey you should really do your duty to humankind and pick up my grant...

Obviously you want to be polite. But the real point here is that you are playing the long game. When you front people with the deficits in their system, they are not going to immediately agree you are right and hand you a new grant award. Not the way the world works. You are trying to shape their own beliefs. This can take time. And you are also trying to give them (your advocates) the ammunition that they need to make their case with higher-ups. (When text that is suspiciously similar to your rantings shows up in the RFA, just quietly pat yourself on the back and consider it a job well done!)

6 responses so far

Enforcing collaboration via grant review

Mar 16 2014 Published by under Grantsmanship, NIH, NIH Careerism, NIH funding

I am wondering whether anyone else is noticing any trends for prioritizing multiple-lab NIH grant proposals.

I recently got busted on, somewhat randomly given the proposal, for not including enough other faculty level investigators. At the time I shrugged it off as an annoying hobby-horse issue of one reviewer.

But Multi-PI proposals have been going over well for some time now, from appearances. So perhaps it is a trend and study sections will start punishing single-lab grants?

I am not sure what to make of this, should it become a trend.

The comment I received smelled to me like "why are you not bringing your junior faculty along for the ride?"...bu perhaps I am over interpreting.

17 responses so far

Your Grant in Review: I Can't Work With This

Mar 14 2014 Published by under Grant Review, Grantsmanship, NIH, NIH Careerism

Reminder. You are going to have advocates and detractor reviewing your grant proposals. Your goal is to give the advocate what she needs to promote your proposal.

No matter how much the advocate might love the essential ideas in your application, nothing good is going to happen if you violate every rule of basic grantsmithing.

At the least you should be able to put together a proposal that gets it mostly right. Credible. Serious. Without huge gaping holes or obvious piles of StockCritique bait lying around everywhere.

It should not be hard to give the advocating reviewer something they can work with.

17 responses so far

A NIH Grant Applicant's Calming Mantra

Mar 10 2014 Published by under Grant Review, Grantsmanship, NIH Careerism

"No matter how ridiculous the summary statement comment, it helps you to write better proposals in the future."

11 responses so far

Do you always get about the same score on your NIH grant?

Feb 11 2014 Published by under Grantsmanship, NIH, NIH Careerism, NIH funding

This question is mostly for the more experienced of the PItariat in my audience. I'm curious as to whether you see your grant scores as being very similar over the long haul?

That is, do you believe that a given PI and research program is going to be mostly a "X %ile" grant proposer? Do your good ones always seem to be right around 15%ile? Or for that matter in the same relative position vis a vis the presumed payline at a given time?

Or do you move around? Sometimes getting 1-2%ile, sometimes midway to the payline, sometimes at the payline, etc?

This latter describes my funded grants better. A lot of relative score (i.e., percentile) diversity.

It strikes me today that this very experience may be what reinforces much of my belief about the random nature of grant review. Naturally, I think I put up more or less the same strength of proposal each time. And naturally, I think each and every one should be funded.

So I wonder how many people experience more similarity in their scores, particularly for their funded or near-miss applications. Are you *always* coming in right at the payline? Or are you *always* at X %ile?

In a way this goes to the question of whether certain types of grant applications are under greater stress when the paylines tighten. The hypothesis being that perhaps a certain type of proposal is never going to do better than about 15%ile. So in times past, no problem, these would be funded right along with the 1%ile AMAZING proposals. But in the current environment, a change in payline makes certain types of grants struggle more.

42 responses so far

Potnia Theron on Stock Criticism of NIH Grants

Dec 13 2013 Published by under Grant Review, Grantsmanship

Apparently Potnia is going to do a series over at Mistress of the Animals blog. This statement is one of those mnemonic gems you should paste on your monitor edge.

Aims should be general enough to require a project (1-2 papers per aim), but specific enough that they are a project.

One response so far

Government shutdown NIH Grant strategery

Oct 17 2013 Published by under Grant Review, Grantsmanship, NIH

There's at least one early indicator of what is going to happen with the study section rounds that were cancelled because of the government shutdown.

This has all sorts of implications, one of which was brought up by Professor Jentsch in a subsequent tweet. It is related to the NOTice just issued which says that all October deadlines will be pushed forward into the "November timeframe".

Let's say your submitted a new proposal in June or perhaps a revised or competing renewal proposal in July. And like a busy little beaver you've continued to work on the project. Perhaps you have some excellent new data that further supports your awesome ideas and the killer experiments that you've proposed.

There is only one thing to do. Pull the grant from consideration and resubmit it, with the new data, once the NIH picks some November deadlines.

44 responses so far

You guys are doing this all wrong!

Oct 02 2013 Published by under Grantsmanship, NIH, NIH Careerism

Every good grant application boils down to one or more of a couple of key statements.

  • "The field is totally doing it WRONG!"
  • "That which all those idiots think is true....ISN'T!"
  • "These people are totally missing the boat by working on that instead of working on THIS!"
  • "How can they possible have missed the implications of THIS amazing THING??!!??"

Good grant applications also have a single goal and conclusion.

  • "....and I am here to FIX EVERYTHING!"

 

The trouble is that you can't say this in so many words. First, because you sound insane. Second, because some of those self-same people you are calling blind, stupid fools are the ones reviewing your grant. Third, because people reviewing your grant might have some respect for those other people you are calling fools. Fourth, because you may stray into calling your friendly Program Officers at the NIH fools for funding all that other stuff instead of you.

The most acceptable compromise seems to be to focus very heavily on the fact that you are here to "fix everything". To focus especially on the "everything" and less on the "fix" if I am being totally honest. This puts the focus more on the potential amazing outcome of what you intend to do and much less emphasis on why you need to do it. It has a more positive feel and avoids insulting too many of your reviewers. And avoids telling your PO that they are doing everything wrong themselves.

So I tend to do this in my grant applications.

This occasionally feels like I am battling with one hand tied behind my back since I  am pulling my punches about how ridiculous it is to fund anything other than my current proposal. You can talk about gaps in the literature. You can go on about synthesis of approaches and your amazing discoveries ahead. And you should do so.

 

But ultimately there are an awful lot of scientists with big promises. And even more with highly refined skills and effective laboratory operations. And to my eye it is less effective to argue that my own proposals are just more-good-than-thou. It is essential to argue why I am proposing work that is much better. And for something to be substantially better, well, that sort of implies that the status quo is lacking in a significant way.

I hate having to make those arguments. I mean, don't get me wrong....it IS my native behavior. Which I am sure is no surprise to my readers.

 

It is just that I've worked hard to stamp that out of my grant writing due to my considered view that FWDAOSS is not a really useful strategy.

 

And now I have to reconsider the wisdom of this approach.

 

Better to burn out than to fade away?

 

 

3 responses so far

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