Archive for the 'NIH' category

Boom and bust instability in NIH funding

May 13 2014 Published by under Fixing the NIH, NIH

The Tweep known as @dr24hours made a comment on grant strategy:

which I have to admit makes a lot of sense. Get your mental health together by not worrying about yet another grant deadline...you've earned it! Take the time to do what your job really is about...looking at data, planning studies, bringing them to fruition. Publishing. Have some science fun and bask in the sunshine*.

In a different age of the NIH grant game, this would have been a fine strategy for your career as well.

It no longer is fine.

We are in an era of boom and bust instability when it comes to NIH funding. It is the very rare flower indeed, in my estimation, that will be completely free of the cycle in the coming decade or two.

As always, my view is quite possibly colored by my experiences. But I have seen the boom and bust cycle play out across a large number of labs. Some of my close acquaintance. Some labs that I know only through the grant review process. Some labs that happen to make it to the scuttlebutt news channel for some reason or other.

It usually plays out like this. "Yeah, Dr. So-and-so is really well funded.....what? What do you mean they are on the ropes? [checks RePORTER]..how in the hell did THAT happen". ....Two years later "Oh phew, glad to see So-and-so got another grant. ....what? TWO grants? and an R21? how in the hell did THAT happen?"...

Repeat.

There are a couple of ways the current uncertainty amps up the gain on the boom and bust cycle of grant funding.

Getting back to Dr24hours' assertion in the Twitt, yes, a lot of PIs do their grant submitting in bursts. If you have enough funding, why submit applications? And if you are approaching the end of your current funding, well, you are going to start shooting those applications out on full-auto fire. This makes a lot of sense and I think a lot of us, including YHN, do this by reflex.

If you apply the current grant success odds to more (down cycle) versus fewer (up cycle) applications, well, you can see that a PI is herself contributing to the amplitude of the cycle.

Then we get to the way grant reviewers look at a PI and the application that is in front of them. Yes, Virginia, perceptions of "too much funding" do contaminate the reviewer's mind. It is inevitable. Just look at all the screaming over at RockTalking and on my posts about how the "real solution" is to limit the amount of funding any one PI can secure. And when a PI appears to be on the ropes, grant-wise, the reviewers are likely to feel....sympathy. I know, I know, this sentiment is thin stuff compared with the negative value of the perception of "too much funding" but it is most certainly a contributing factor.

What this means is that if you take a PI's grant proposals as more-or-less equally deserving on objective grounds, the ones that are submitted when she has a few grants are less likely to get a fundable score. This accelerates the downfall after an interval of healthy funding. On the other side, when the PI looks like she is at the end of her funding, the sympathy cred will make an application relatively more likely to fund. And since there will be a lengthy interval of time in which the lab looks to be running on fumes, it could be that several applications (perhaps in different study sections) will be pushed over the funding line by sympathy.

Finally, your friendly Program Officer plays a role in this as well. As we've seen over the past few years they have been very overt and explicit about "saving" long-running programs that are on the ropes. They will perhaps not admit it, but you know damn well that when it comes to making out-of-order funding decisions, if there is a perception that PI Jones is "healthily funded" and PI Smith is on the skids, the Smith app will get picked up and the Jones app will not. Again, the down cycle is accelerated and the up-cycle can be inflated. In some perfect world where such considerations didn't matter, the deflation of the labs on the up cycle would be attenuated by a Program pick up about as often as the rescue of labs on the down cycle would be accomplished. This should work against the boom-and-bust (albeit potentially at the risk of increasing lab-death).

As you are well aware, Dear Reader, I pursue a two-pronged approach when it comes to this stuff.

First is always my advice on how the individual PI is best to navigate the system. I see no solution to this phenomenon other than to keep a steady flow of apps, even when you are relatively well funded. Five years elapses VERY rapidly and the confidence that even a very productive project, or one that hits all the expectations laid out in the original application, will be continued is low. Very low. There is still a degree to which the revise-and-resubmit cycle improves your odds. That can take, what, two years from original submission to eventual funding of the A1? Well two years out from the end of your current award, you still look like you are healthily funded. But what can you do? You sure as heck can't count on sympathy to push your A0 version over the funding line if you wait until the last six months of your current award.

Second, I continue to discuss ways to stabilize funding. It certainly is all the rage with Rockey and friends. (Sally Rockey showed up to a symposium on "Bridging Career Pathways for an Evolving Biomedical Workforce" at Experimental Biology this year, btw.) As always, it is a long slow slog to get the powers that be to even understand how to ask the right questions, nevermind how to arrive at the right answers. One of the problems is that official NIHdom never thinks about careers. It took a fair while for Rockey to blog about funding rates by PI (here) as opposed to by grant. And it was still hard for her / her data minions to grasp that the success rates of PIs had to look over longer intervals of time, five to ten years. Jeremy Berg has been doing a good job of starting the process of examining the career aspects, see here and here. I think understanding the PI dynamics is critical to achieving some sort of stabilization of the uncertainty of funding that is so paralytic to science right now.

Part of this understanding should be a recognition of the boom-and-bust cycle.

If it exists. My perceptions could be very skewed, I realize. There should be a way for Rockey to get her data miners to characterize periodicity of funding cycles versus relatively sustained funding. To see if the relative proportions of PIs enjoying sustained, relatively invariant levels of funding differ across time. My prediction is, of course, that Rockey would find that there is more variability in a given PI's funding across time then in the past.

As far as fixes for the boom / bust cycle go, I think we can't do much about the PIs' behavior or the way that study sections bias their reviews on the perception of how much funding a person has at that particular moment. This leaves it in the hand of Program to try to stabilize matters. So far their attention seems mainly focused on saving labs as they are approaching "bust". This is admirable from many perspectives.

But I suspect that if they focused on arresting the "bust" before it actually happens it would have the same overall effect on the PI population while avoiding so much inefficiency of production that attends a lab plummeting toward the funding abyss.

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*because Winter is Coming.

23 responses so far

Grantome details the trajectories of the NIH Grant "have" institutions

This is a fascinating read.

Grantome.com is a project of data scientists who have generated a database of grant funding information. This particular blog post focuses on a longitudinal analysis of some of the most heavily NIH-funded Universities and other research institutions. It shows those which are maintaining stable levels of support, those in decline and those which are grabbing an increased share of the extramural NIH pie.

The following graph was described thusly:

Each histogram bar represents the range in the percentage of grants that has been held between 1986 and 2013. The current, 2013 level is represented by a black vertical line. Finally, arrows inform on the latest trend in how these values are changing, where their length and direction reflect predictions in the level of funding that each institution will have over the next 3 years. These predictions were made from linear extrapolation of the average rate of change that was observed over the last 3 years.

This serves as an interesting counterpoint to the discussion of the "real problem" at the NIH as it has typically centered around too many awards per PI, too much funding per PI, the existence of soft-money job categories, the overhead rates enjoyed by certain Universities, etc.

I am particularly fascinated by their searchable database, in which you can play around with the funding histories of various institutions. Searches by fiscal year, funding IC are illuminating, as is toggling between total costs and the number of awards on the graphical display.

23 responses so far

Lost Labs and Implied Tragedy

Apr 25 2014 Published by under NIH Budgets and Economics, NIH Careerism

Somebody I normally respect is on the Twitts naming and shaming scientists who have lost their NIH funding and are, allegedly*, shuttering their laboratories.

This makes me deeply uncomfortable for the naming and shaming part, one.

More important is the implication that it is somehow a greater tragedy** that people who have enjoyed something on the order of 20 years of NIH funding are now at the end of their careers.

This is nonsense. First of all, if you have the luxury to retire at 60 with a nice fat pension, maybe an Emeritus office to visit, with your kids through college (generationally more likely), house paid off (ditto), etc, etc then retiring "early" is what we used to think of as a huge win. So you stopped publishing science a little earlier than you might have liked. So what. Get a hobby.

More importantly, it necessarily diminishes the tragedy of others who never had funding.

I am not okay with this.

As you know, I've managed to keep my head above water as an NIH funded lab head......so far. And yeah, I feel the greatest affinity for my own continued survival in this career. Sure. Hard to avoid and I don't fault anyone for feeling the same way. What I do fault people for is not realizing at some level how deeply selfish this tendency is. At least act like you understand everyone should have a fair shot?

And that is the point. It has been decades that I have watched the fate of people who might have become NIH-funded investigators of various levels of fame, fortune and pizzaz. Decades over which I have watched the career arcs of people who have enjoyed NIH grant support.

There are a lot of people who should have been PIs with generous amounts of grant support who never achieved this outcome. Lots. There are a lot of people who managed to maintain funding that are clearly no more, and often less, worthy than those who did not enjoy such success.

There has to be at least one unsuccessful young gun of your field that, were you the boss of science, you would put 5 senior investigators*** out to pasture to fund. If you don't know of any people like that, you aren't thinking very hard about it.

So sure, it is a tragedy when a luminary of your field closes shop. It is distressing even when a middle rank plodder has to pack it in. These people are salient to you, I realize. Because they are publishing. They have generated papers that are important to you.

The folks who never had a chance in the first place? All too easy to forget. All too easy to shrug off their failure to become a luminary as fault of their own (they "chose" alt career) or the system (life is hard).

But they are most assuredly a Lost Lab too.

Try not to forget that.
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*I say allegedly because we have heard a tremendous amount of rumoring about labs "about to close" because of the dismal NIH grant situation. See this 2009 report in Nature News. As it turned out, one of those researchers was just fine and one was picked up at the time but didn't learn the proper lesson.

**I am also unimpressed by the recitation of these Lost Labs' publication record by Journal or by the lab in which that PI was trained. As if that tells us anything about how tragic it is or is not to have lost their labs. Please.

***Naturally even within a subfield, not everyone agrees on who the most promising young gun(s) is/are and not everyone agrees on who are the 5 dispensable peers. I am not suggesting this Lost Lab situation is easy to fix.

18 responses so far

Grant Review Site Visits

...need to be ended.

They represent a huge risk for bias dependent on the personal characteristics of the investigators to rule the day.

Are you an older, white-haired, heteronormative appearanced, able-bodied picture of "Scientist and Professor"? Great!

Are you overweight? Do you stutter? Express unexpected gender presentation? Nonwhite? Female? Are your language skills less than native to the reviewer's ears? Too young? Too hot? Not hawt enough? .... Not so great.

Should your grant proposal be affected strongly by the direct face to face impression of these characteristics?

No.

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H/t: @jwoodgett

Update: See PDF for site visit procedures

21 responses so far

Your Grant in Review: The Biosketch Research Support Section

Apr 21 2014 Published by under Grant Review, Grantsmanship, NIH, NIH funding

A question came up on the twitts about the Research Support section of the NIH Biosketch.

The answer is that no, you do not. I will note that I am not entirely sure if this changed over the years or if my understanding of this rule was incomplete at the start. However, the instructions on the Sample Biosketch [PDF] provided by the NIH are clear.

D. Research Support
List both selected ongoing and completed research projects for the past three years (Federal or non-Federally-supported). Begin with the projects that are most relevant to the research proposed in the application. Briefly indicate the overall goals of the projects and responsibilities of the key person identified on the Biographical Sketch. Do not include number of person months or direct costs.

The last bit is the key bit for Dr24Hour's question but I include the full description for a reason.

dr24Hours also asked:

and there was a followup to my initial negative response

Together, these questions seem to indicate a misunderstanding of what this section is for, and what it is trying to communicate.

Note the use of the term "selected" and "most relevant" in the above passage.

The Biosketch is, in total, devoted to convincing the reviewers that the PI and other Investigative staff have the chops to pull off the project under review. It is about bragging on how accomplished they all are. Technically, it is not even a full recitation of all the support one has secured in the past three years. This is similar to how the Peer-reviewed Publications section is limited to 15 items, regardless of how many total publications that you have.

Inclusion of items in the Research Support section is to show that the Investigators have run projects of similar scope with acceptable success. Yes, the definition of acceptable success is variable, but this concept is clear. The goal is to show off the Investigator's accomplishments to the best possible advantage.

The Research Support is not about demonstrating that the PI is successful at winning grants. It is not about demonstrating how big and well-funded the lab has been (no direct costs). It is not even about the reviewers trying to decide if the PI is spread too thinly (no listing of effort). This is not the point*.

In theory, one would just put forward a subset of the best elements on one's CV. The most relevant and most successful grant awards. If space is an issue (the Biosketch is limited to 4 pages) then the PI might have to make some selections. Obviously you'd want to start with NIH R01s (or equivalent) if the application is an R01. Presumably you would want to supply the reviewer with what you think are your most successful projects- in terms of papers, scientific advance, pizzaz of findings or whatever floats your boat.

You might also want to "selectively" omit any of your less-successful awards or even ones that seem like they have too much overlap with the present proposal.

Don't do this.

If it is an NIH award, you can be assured at least one of the reviewers will have looked you up on RePORTER and will notice the omission. If it is a non-NIH award, perhaps the odds are lower but you just never know. If the reviewer thinks you are hiding something...this is not good. If your award has been active in the past three years and is listed somewhere Internet-accessible, particularly on your University or lab website, then list it on the Biosketch.

Obviously this latter advice only applies to people who have a lot of different sources of support. The more of them you have, the tighter the space. Clearly, you are going to have to make some choices if your lab operates on a lot of different sources of support. Prioritize by what makes sense to you, sure, but make sure you pay attention to the communication you are trying to accomplish when making your selections. And beware of being viewed with a suspicion that you are trying to conceal something.
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*Yes, in theory. I grasp that there will be reviewers using this information to argue that the PI is spread too thinly or has "too much" grant support.

10 responses so far

Thought of the Day: The NIH Can't Win

Apr 18 2014 Published by under Careerism, NIH, NIH Careerism, NIH funding

A comment over at Rock Talk made a fairly traditional complaint about the NIH funding system. Dan C stated that: "NIH is to be criticized that it funds “usual suspects.

Today, I find this funny. Because after all, most of the people complaining about the NIH system want to become one of the usual suspects!

Right? They want to get a grant, one. They want to have some reasonable stability of that grant funding in a program-like sustained career. Most of them don't want to have to struggle too hard to get that funding either....I doubt anyone would refuse the occasional Program pickup of their just-missed grant.

Once you cobble together a bit of success under the NIH extramural grant system, those who feel themselves to be on the outs call you a "usual suspect". For any number of reasons it is just obvious to them that you are a total Insider (and couldn't actually deserve what you've managed to accomplish, of course). This may be based on the mere fact that you've acquired a grant, because you work in a Department or University where a whole lot of other people are similarly successful. This may be because it appears that POs actually talk to the person in question. It may be because a FOA has appeared in a research domain that you work within.

Anyone sees the duck floating serenely on the water at a given point in time and it looks like this is one most usual suspect waterfowl indeed.

I used to be annoyed at my approximate lateral peers in science who appeared to be having an easier time of it than I did. I had my Insider attributes as a younger faculty member, make no mistake, but I also had considerable Outsider traits, considering where I was seeking funding and for what topics of research. Some of those folks, over there, well boy didn't they get an easy ride because of being such Insiders to the subpart of the NIH system!

I still have those thoughts. Even though I've seen many of the people I thought had it made in the shade go through their dry spells and funding down-cycles. Despite the fact that as each year goes by and my lab remains funded, I become more and more one of the "usual suspects".

I believe that if I ever feel like I am one of the usual suspects, if I feel like I deserve special treatment and stop fighting so hard to keep my lab going that this will be the end.

I advise you to try to retain the same feeling of "outsider" that you feel as a noob PI for as long as you can into your career.

Getting back to the point, however, the NIH simply cannot win with these criticisms. Those who are feeling unsuccessful will always carp about how the NIH just funds "their" people. And if the NIH does happen to fund one of these outsiders, this very act makes them a usual suspect to the next complainer.

The NIH can't win.

14 responses so far

NIH backs down on resubmitting unfunded A1 grant applications

Apr 17 2014 Published by under Grant Review, Grantsmanship, NIH, NIH Careerism, NIH funding

The rumors were true. NOT-OD-14-074says:

Effective immediately, for application due dates after April 16, 2014, following an unsuccessful resubmission (A1) application, applicants may submit the same idea as a new (A0) application for the next appropriate due date. The NIH and AHRQ will not assess the similarity of the science in the new (A0) application to any previously reviewed submission when accepting an application for review. Although a new (A0) application does not allow an introduction or responses to the previous reviews, the NIH and AHRQ encourage applicants to refine and strengthen all application submissions.

So, for all intents and purposes you can revise and resubmit your failed application endlessly. Maybe they will pick you up on the A6 or A7 attempt!

Sally Rockey has a blog entry up which gives a bit more background and rationale.

While the change in policy had the intended result of a greater number of applications being funded earlier,

I really wonder if she believes this or has to continue to parrot the company line for face saving reasons. There is no evidence this is true. Not until and unless she can show definitively that the supposed A0s being funded were not in fact re-workings of proposals that had been previously submitted. I continue to assert that a significant number of PIs were submitting "A0" applications that were directly and substantially benefited by having been previously reviewed in different guise.


As a result, we heard increasing concerns from the community about the impact of the policy on new investigators because finding new research directions can be quite difficult during this phase of their career.

If the true concern here was the ESI or NI, then they could have simply allowed them to pass the filter as a category.

The resubmission of an idea as new means the application will be considered without an association to a previous submission; the applicant will not provide an introduction to spell out how the application has changed or respond to previous reviews; and reviewers will be instructed to review it as a new idea even if they have seen it in prior cycles.

The only way this is remotely possible is to put it in a different study section and make sure there are no overlapping ad hocs. If they don't do this, then this idea is nonsense. Surely Dr. Rockey is aware you cannot expect "instruction" to stick and force reviewers to behave themselves. Not with perfect fidelity.

However, we will monitor this new policy closely.

HA! If they'd decided to allow endless amendments (and required related apps to be submitted as such) then they would have been able to monitor the policy. The way they did this, there is no way to assess the impact. They will never know how many supposed "A0" apps are really A2, A4, A6, nor how many "A1" apps are really A3, A5, A7...etc. So what on earth could they possibly monitor? The number of established PIs who call up complaining about the unfundable score they just received on their A1?

71 responses so far

Side thought on the NIH issuing project grants versus program grants

Apr 16 2014 Published by under NIH, NIH Careerism, NIH funding

I asked a poorly worded question on the Twitts

in which what I was trying to ask was this. From the perspective of awarding NIH grants, does it matter that a given proposal fits into a larger whole? If a brand new investigator, do we assume that he or she is applying for the first grant among many? For the greybeard for whom this might be a last-award, do we recognize that it is the capstone to a lengthy program? For the mid-career investigator do we assume this is only one of the many parts that will eventually form a large body of work?

Or is it all good if this is a singleton? One grant, awarded for 5 years and that is all.

The interesting thing is that nobody on the Twitts thought that I meant this. The answers went to various places- funding from non-NIH sources, relatively inexpensive research that didn't actually require an R01 to be vibrant, the idea of a single R01 that was continued beyond a mere 5 year interval. Many people assumed that what I was really talking about was assessing the merits and qualities of the PI.

After I got done kicking myself for not asking the question properly, a simple thought struck me.

Perhaps the very fact that people assumed I meant just about anything other than a single 5 year award, period, for a given PI was my answer. We do tend to expect that a R01 award fits into a larger research program. It does not stand alone as a single project.

20 responses so far

On 'Rescuing US biomedical research from its systemic flaws'

Apr 14 2014 Published by under Fixing the NIH, NIH

I was alerted on the Twitts

to a Perspective by Bruce Alberts (former Science EIC), Marc Kirschner (BSD), Shirley Tilghman (working tirelessly on "fix the NIH" committees) and Harold Varmus (former NIH Directior, current NCI Director). In Rescuing US biomedical research from its systemic flaws the authors recognize the current dismal state of affairs and issue several calls to action.

You will find nearly everything that has been put on the table here at this blog, at Rock Talking blog and, really, everywhere the discussions are serious about NIH-funded biomedical research. I find much to like in here and of course I disagree with several of their points and/or solutions.

Nevertheless, the overall goals are pretty good. They want to evolve to some more HHMI-like stability of funding, an equilibrium of participating scientists to the available budgets and to generally keep the grant process on improving scientific productivity rather than hampering it.

Overall there are good things being said here. But the specifics will be key. They argue for funding more graduate students on fellowships to give more control to the federal government. They phrase this in terms of "quality control" but they overlook using the bully pulpit to demand training programs actually reduce their output of PhDs! On the postdoctoral side of the over supply issue, they call for raising postdoctoral salaries until staff scientists are an attractive alternative. Then they call for increasing the ratio of staff scientist positions. I agree wholeheartedly but am not sure raising postdoc salaries is the way to go. There needs to be some additional mechanisms to provide a carrot to the expansion of the staff scientist category.

The Perspective also goes after the incentives local Universities, Med Schools and Research Institutes have to employ soft-money faculty. Proposals include going after soft-money job types, indirect cost recovery on faculty salary and some obscure but important stuff about including new construction costs in the IDC calculation.

Their recommendations for peer review changes are a mixed bag. They want to dismantle geographical diversity requirements for study section panels (O Rly?) and increase the number of oldsters on the panels. There is some of the usual blah-blah about risk taking, innovation, longer term outcome expectation and identifying the "strongest candidates for support".

What I don't like about these proposals is the stench of elitism that encircles them. As I have said repeatedly, one of the design virtues (even if imperfectly realized) of the NIH system is the respect for the democracy of ideas. In theory, anyone can propose a fundable study by coming up with a great idea that simply must be done. The alternative that is being proposed here is that we select good scientists at the beginnings of their careers and that is it. They get the money even if someone else has a better idea. Because that someone else may not have been selected in the beginning and will now never be able to get into the racket.

The racket will be dominated by pedigree, you better believe it. Not good.

There is one statement about peer review that I find hilarious:

Senior scientists with a wide appreciation for different fields can play important roles by counteracting the tendency of specialists to overvalue work in their own field.

...because "senior scientists" never "overvalue work" based on their biases, right? Please. I've said this many times in the context of grant review. Everyone has biases. EVERYONE! The only tried and true solution is the competition of biases which requires diversity. We need junior scientists in the mix. We need people from a diversity of institution types. We need people of diverse backgrounds and interests. We need a diversity of scientific approaches, orientations and interests. All competing on a more or less equal footing. It is the only way to minimize biases of review.

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UPDATE/PostScript: I think these authors also fall into the usual trap of thinking that they know who the best scientists are and that if we could just get the money in their hands then the best science would result. It is the trap of thinking we can actually predict where the advances will come from. Read the history of optogenetics. Did it require Deisseroth? Would we have gotten there eventually? Would Deisseroth even have been funded under the New World Order envisioned by the Alberts et al Perspective piece? Has the infinitely more translatably useful DREADD technology been underdeveloped because of the shadow cast by optogenetics? In the New World Order might DREADD have been prevented entirely?

52 responses so far

On resubmitting unfunded A1 NIH grant applications

Apr 08 2014 Published by under Grant Review, Grantsmanship, NIH, NIH funding

Well, well, well.

The NIH limited applicants to a single revision ("amendment", hence -01A1 version) of an unfunded "new" grant submission (the -01 version, sometimes called "A0") in 2009.

This followed the action in 1997 to limit revisions to two (see RockTalk chart), which hurt PIs like Croce and Perrin. (Six revision? Wow, that is some serious persistence guys, my hat is off.)

I wasn't really paying attention to such matters in 1997 but there was some screaming in 2009, let me tell you.
Delusional Biomedical Researchers Seek Repeal Of Arithmetic
More on the new NIH policy on grant application revisions

Initial outcome of limiting NIH apps to a single revision?


NIH re-evaluating ‘two strikes’ rule – Updated

Crocodile tears from experienced NIH investigators over the discontinued A2 revision

I don't know how many people actually got stuck in the filter for submitting a A0 that was too similar to their prior, unfunded A1. I heard of a few, so it did happen. On the flip side of that, I've sure as heck been putting in more than two versions of a proposal which is designed to fund the same area of interest in my laboratory. I have not yet been flagged for it. My initial reaction that any PI who has an ounce of creativity ought to be able to come up with a credible alternative take on their project is still my current take.

Nevertheless, rumor has it that changes are in the wind.

Pinko Punko made an interesting comment on the blog:

DM, I heard the craziest thing today- the possibility of removing the "substantial revision" criterion for new A0 related to previous A1. Supposedly announcement soon- I was kind of surprised.

This was news to me but I have heard things from about five independent sources in the past few days that tend to confirm that changes are being considered.

The most consistent rumor is that new grants will no longer be checked for similarity to prior unfunded proposals. They will be called new grants, but there is no apparent reason for this. In all ways I can see, this is going to be a return to the days prior to 1997 where you could just endlessly revise until the study section relented.

The supposed benefit of reduced "time to award from original proposal" is now going totally by the wayside. I mean, the NIH will still be able to lie and say "look it was an A0!" if they want to but this is even less credible.

More dangerously, the will of study sections to endlessly queue applications will be released from whatever tepid effect the A1 limit has produced.

This is a very BadThing.

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whoa. I found three A7 projects. All three are competing continuations. I can't EVEN....five and six year apparent funding gaps for two of them. The other I can't work out why there is no apparent gap in funding.

31 responses so far

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