By now you may have heard of the latest tactic of the animal rights group “Negotiation Is Over”. The militant animal rights group has decided to get them while they’re young. Not to recruit while people are young, mind you, to THREATEN. To threaten college students who are interested in science careers and doing animal research.
How to Shut Down Vivisectors-In-Training in Three Easy Steps
1. By and large, students pursuing careers in research science truly want to help people, not victimize animals. Their indoctrination into the world of laboratory torture is slow, methodical, and deliberate. While they are being groomed, we are obligated to intercede and educate these young scientists with truth. As Alena admitted, “I was naive…I really just did not know about all this stuff.” And she is not unique.
2. Students also need to understand that making the wrong choice will result in a lifetime of grief. Aspiring scientists envision curing cancer at the Mayo Clinic. We need to impart a new vision: car bombs, 24/7 security cameras, embarrassing home demonstrations, threats, injuries, and fear. And, of course, these students need to realize that any personal risk they are willing to assume will also be visited upon their parents, children, and nearest & dearest loved ones. The time to reconsider is now.
3. Like all young adults, college students are acutely concerned with how they are perceived by their peers. They need to maintain a certain persona if they wish to continue to enjoy the acceptance of their community. This makes them infinitely more susceptible to negative and inflammatory publicity than their veteran-mutilator counterparts. When education fails, smear campaigns can be highly effective. Abusers have forfeited all rights to privacy and peace of mind and, if an abuser-to-be should fail to make the correct choice now, NIO is here to broadcast all of their personal information. Remember, young people document every facet of their personal lives online. In about 30 minutes, we were able to compile an impressive and comprehensive profile for Elena.
(Via NIO. That is a link to the real NIO, so consider yourself warned. emphasis mine)
Get ‘em while they’re young, NIO. Nice. Make a poor girl walk around her campus looking over her shoulder in fear. Make her give up her dreams to help the world to favor your agenda. No one wants to hear that a student is treated this way. No one would EVER want to hear that their child was threatened this way. But many of us have kids that want to help the world in some way. Many of us have kids that love science. And now they will get the message that if you love science, you have "car bombs, 24/7 security cameras, embarrassing home demonstrations, threats, injuries, and fear" waiting for you.
These threatening tactics are disgusting no matter who they are targeted at, and spreading it to students is just an extra level of nasty. It is NEVER ok to threaten violence, to tell people that you will ruin their lives.
There are those who disagree with the use of animals in research. That’s fine. We are allowed to disagree. We should talk about it. We should research viable alternatives (something which, by the way, scientists are doing all the time. Believe me, animal research is NOT the cheapest, or most efficient way to find answers to
medical problems. It IS the SUREST, the only way that we find results that will work in humans. But the day we come up with a viable alternative, believe me, most of us will give up our animal work immediately). But we should not threaten violence. To threaten violence to young students working with fruit flies is just beyond the pale. But then again, these are people who think nothing of threatening researchers’ children, so I guess nothing is beyond the pale.
For those who are in favor of responsible animal research, stand up to this violence. And for those of you who are AGAINST animal research, you need to stand up to this violence, too. Be willing to have an honest conversation about animals in research without threatening car bombs, and don’t affiliate yourself with those who do. Show everyone that there is another way to be against animal research, a way that doesn’t involve violence to animals or humans.
For those of you who DO animal research, do your best to protect yourself, your students, your techs, and your post-docs. Teach them about internet privacy, and how to protect themselves. Teach them how to talk about what they do responsibly. And most importantly, teach them how to WORK responsibly, how to treat the animals they work with with respect and care. Show them how important animal welfare is to responsible conduct of research. Some of these people will become researchers, some may not. But all of them can come away with knowledge of what we do and how we work, knowing that animal research is necessary for life improvements for both animals and humans.
And now I can just sit back and wait for the threats to come flowing in. Because I know they will. But I'd like to think that if I can reach some people (all two of you) who will realize how terrible this is, and help you to speak out, it'll be worth it. And if you are getting threatened, don't face it alone. Hold your head up, protect yourself, and speak out. What we do is valuable, important, and necessary, and the more we work, the closer we come to finding cures and treatments that are desperately needed, and the closer we come to finding alternatives for use of animals.
I didn't realize the discussion at Isis's blog had devolved into such mayhem. I ended up posting there as well.
This discussion has reminded me to focus a little more on these issues when our undergrads start in the lab in a couple months. We always talk about it and they go through a great seminar on animal research issues and respectful treatment of animals but since our lab is heavily mouse-focused I think it is important to address it to our small group separately. Thanks for the great post!
I'm very sorry to hear about this. I love animals, I just love people more. People die and suffer in wars to protect others. Animals do too! Yes both are a great loss but until we find a better alternative to both, it is what it is. Without research there will be a lot more suffering in the long run. Violence is never the correct path to take. Thank you to those with the courage to pursue research careers. Keep looking for ways to avoid the cruel treatment along the way. Let get rid of the needless experiments that have to do with vanity though. Keep it real.
Has anyone reported this group to the FBI yet? It sounds like their statements are deliberately advocating terrorism, and possibly violence against people.
https://tips.fbi.gov/
Thanks for a terrific post Sci!
I reported them to the FBI.
These people are hypocrites! If they can't even see the value of another human being, than their cause is bogus. It doesn't matter if it's an animal or a human, pain is pain and when pain is purposefully inflicted because of hate and anger that's infinitely more worse than inflicting it for research.
Ya think??? why don"t you ask the subject of that research if that is true???
Well said Sci!
I just moseyed over to their website and was absolutely appalled. I'm an undergraduate but intend to go into research and don't want to spend a large amount of my time defending what I do but if I have to I will.
This is appalling. It would be bad enough if groups like NIO merely promoted ignorance.
Terrorist threats of violence made to students, scientists and their loved ones is beyond the pale.
Thanks for writing this Sci, the fact that the threats that Marino and her ilk make are 95% bluster doesn't make them any less reprehensible, or lessen the necessity for scientists and students to join in solidarity with those at the receiving end of AR extremist threats and harassment.
Excellent post Sci.
Respect.
Well said, Sci. While I don't condone real animal cruelty or neglect (although I admit to having been horrid to animals when I was a small child), if we are to find out how to help our fellows humans animal experiments are needed.
Threatening science students and their families is illegal and immoral.
You go into animal research you deserve all the pain you get tbh. You inflict pain on animals then you lose any right to not have pain inflicted on you.
Stop treating animals like shit and people will stop treating you disgusting scientist and animal abuser wannabes like shit.
Alex, either you're a troll, or never met an actual animal researcher in your entire life. I'm gonna go with the former.
In any case, have you ever killed an insect or spider? I'm not asking if you meant it or had good motives. Have you? Wonderful, then disregard that black van that may be following you shortly... ^.^
If you're for real, then feel free to contact me and I'll provide you information on how to reach me personally to inflict pain on me. Or try to anyway. Can't guarantee that you won't be blinded by my sheer awesomeness first. =P
PS: I also happen to love fishing. I catch fish, admire their beauty and then proceed to cook and savour their deliciousness. For my own pleasure. Mmmmm!
Alex,
You're incredibly misinformed if you think that we work with animals because we like to abuse them. If I recall correctly, Sci herself has written about why keeping the animals happy is in the interest of the investigator.
On the off chance that you're someone who's actually willing to be persuaded with reason, I'd ask you to go read up a little and talk to people who actually work with animals. Not the hardline AR websites, but for starters, you could try reading the protocols publicly available on Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee (IACUC) websites. Even better, talk to a vet who works in animal care facilities for laboratories and ask them what they do.
Do you not find it strange that AR sources frequently mislabel photos and videos, or rip them out of context, often to the point of outright lying and misrepresentation? Why would the AR movement need to twist facts and figures to such an extent if their allegations held serious merit?
Nobody at NIO threatened anybody but they are saying that if you want this animal-abusing profession then be prepared to be harassed just like the animals that are being TORTURED. There is NO excuse for animal abuse. It is disturbing to me that these people do not mind doing horrible things to animals. Im willing to bet the rate of sociopathy is very high in animal research just like the rate of meeting a sociopath is 25 percent in prison. Im willing to bet it is much higher in animal research.
Andrew, people at the NIO have routinely threatened researchers, car bombing their cars, sending razor blades in the mail, and other horrible things. These are not just threats. And I agree that there is no excuse for animal abuse, what we do is not "animal abuse", or "vivisection". We go to great lengths to make sure our animals are well housed, well taken care of, and experience as little pain or discomfort as possible. And we do not enjoy causing pain or distress. We are humans, not monsters.
Bullshit. You have no clue about how to care for animals or how to respect them. If you did you would give them LARGE expanses to live in and put social animals with social animals, and provide enrichment - both environmental and non. As it is all you do is stack cages high with an animal in each with absolutely no stimulation what so ever, then in the name of pseudo science you give them diseases and ailments just so you can test some stupid theory on them then they get put down when they are of no use to you.
So yes, you are monsters. You wouldn't do it to a human, so don't do it to an animal who is equal to us, not below us. We all evolved equally. Not one for the other.
You harm an animal you reap what you sew. You clearly have no idea what classes as abuse.
Ok, I'm not sure what videos you've been watching, but I can assure you that there are regulations to ensure that all social animals are socially housed, in cages of a specific size to make sure they have enough room, unless something different is specifically required for a particular experiment. Most animals in the facilities I have experience in are provided with social housing, enrichment in the form of toys, treats, and other items (like chewable and nesting items for rodents) that help to ensure their comfort. This is not just because of requirements. It is not in our INTEREST as scientists to have badly cared for animals, because unhealthy and unhappy animals do not produce reliable outcomes that we need for our work. When we can get far better results with happy, healthy, well-cared for animals, why would we do otherwise?
And these are not "stupid" theories that we are testing, they are theories that we hope will lead to cures and understanding of conditions that pertain to human and animal health. Work done with animals is used in veterinary practice, and methods developed in animal research are now being used to help species on the verge of extinction. Animal research can benefit both human and animal species in many cases, and understanding of animal species can lead to better understanding of fragile ecological systems. It's not just us, here.
On another website, I saw one or 2 posts about this same situation. These people threatened to go to their laboratory and abuse animals just to get back at the NIO. Sociopaths talk like this. Half of you are sociopaths.
Meg, I have NEVER heard of anyone threatening to go in and abuse animals just to get back at someone. Please link to the posts that you are referring to, I cannot believe that anyone would seriously want to do that. Hurting animals is not something that any of us enjoy.
Then why do people hunt for 'sport'?
By "us", I mean scientists. I cannot speak for sport hunters, but having grown up in a hunting area, I know that many of them work very hard not to cause undue suffering, to make a clean kill, and that many eat what they kill. I seriously doubt that many people ENJOY watching another animal experience pain. I know I certainly don't.
Clearly some people here think being in a barren cage is classed as 'happyness' for animals. Even scientist produce footage of their labs that show all too well the lack of welfare they provide for the animal. And yes, they must do it for the love of abusing animals because it's certainly not to cure cancer, diabetes etc since will still waiting on those so-called cures to be made after decades of 'research'
I'm not a troll, I just don't put animals below myself just because I have the ability to do so. I don't need to meet an animal researcher (if I did, I'd probably kick his fucking nuts in or her psuedo nuts in), I've seen what goes on in those labs from both the pro testing documentaries and the anti. Both show extremely poor welfare and utterly pointless tests (still testing cigarettes, making mice gay; they've done this in china, and all manner of futile attempts to cure something that can easily be prevented anyway).
Oh, and I have not intentionally killed an insect or arachnid or any creepy crawly since I was a child and I'm now in my 20's...problem? Must be so upsetting that someone actually cares about animals and doesn't conform to the false 'might is right' mentality.
"I don't need to meet an animal researcher (if I did, I'd probably kick his fucking nuts in or her psuedo nuts in)"
How do you know you haven't met one already? And I have to say that your talking like that doesn't make me feel like being very nice.
Of course we don't have cures for cancer or diabetes yet, and I'm sure we both agree that cures for those diseases cannot arrive soon enough. But we have already made great strides in the treatment of those diseases. Current, highly effective treatments for breast cancer are the result of animal research. Insulin used to treat type I diabetes, a disease which used to be a death sentence, is the result of research done in dogs. There are current therapies which drastically improve quality of life and life expectancy for these, and many other disease, all of which are the result of animal research. We don't have cures yet, but our work continues to bring us closer, and we have certainly made progress.
And there are a lot of regulations in place to make sure that the work we do is not pointless. For example, the National Institutes of Health and the National Science Foundation both fund research that has been carefully vetted and approved both to be sure it is novel and will lead to new knowledge, and that it will be in accordance with nationally recognized guidelines for animal care. The IACUC (Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee) for each facility further looks into exactly how many animals will be used and whether those numbers can be reduced, what those animals will undergo, and ensures that they will be treated in a humane manner.
http://negotiationisover.com/2011/04/06/war-on-student-vivisectors-victories-helpful-insights-from-the-enemy/
Also, please don't forget to tell everyone about our next protest at Alpha Genesis on April 16th.
Thanks for all your help
DARE TO COMMENT HERE!
http://negotiationisover.com/2011/04/06/war-on-student-vivisectors-victories-helpful-insights-from-the-enemy/
@Avicenna
If people in this world disagree with everything else, no one can disagree with Camille’s words the time for civil discourse has expired. We are no longer going to do the same things activists did 25 years ago when animals are still experimented on. Logic or Terrorism?
When people are really really REALLY means to you and hurt your feelings but not you, it’s just opinion and the first amendment protects that. Let’s not forget, you guys are sadists so it’s easy to see why your own activities could incite these reactions. That’s the reason virtually no law enforcement in our country would jail us let alone call us terrorists. Simply we are not. We have hurt no one and we aren’t sought as criminals. You can say that you feel as scared as you would if real terrorists talked about you, but that’s still not a crime. If I tell you- and I do here and now- that you are so evil that you’ll pay dearly for it, still not against the law. And as any law enforcement agency will tell you, it’s laughable that you think otherwise.
You know, you didn’t every have to alert any law enforcement agencies. They have been here the whole time- hopefully taking YOUR names and numbers!
Harassment as you define it, in your opinion, might be against the law at some point but we have never done that. You can argue and whine and tell everyone in the barnyard that the sky is falling but your words are in direct contradiction with how law enforcement treats us. Let me say that again only clearer. All US 3-letter agencies are trained and educated to protect. I don’t always love them, but you really need to humble yourself to their skills, just a little. THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED. They check in on us occasionally here but I’m kind of glad- they’ll keep us safe from you guys, LOL! You can post all over the place that there are terrorists running free threatening you guys- that is your first amendment right. But you must know at some point if people who are smarter and highly trained and specialize don’t agree with you, are you kind of acting like a fool? So what are YOU saying to these agencies that need you guys so badly to help them? That they aren’t trained and not doing their jobs, letting terrorists openly prey on US citizens? What you’re doing will work for awhile- and I commend you on your action planning skills. Especially after a bunch of you guys devised that survival plan. You definitely have them scared anyway. I cannot imagine though, no matter what more you say or write, why no one of and intelligence or importance is acting on your words and ideas. Probablly for the same reason they don’t act on ours. And that is how any idot can tell we’re not terrorists.
Well I’m off to finish our ideas and flyers targeting the FL DEP for the Paynes Prairie animals. And targeting UF for refusing to release public records. And targeting the current congressional session on cutting funding for animal experimentation. And targeting Alpha Genesis in SC. Hey! Maybe you should call FBI agents you told about the NIO terrorists and warn them that we are coming for Alpha Genesis April 16th.
I'm involved in animal rescue, rehab and advocacy and I hate the fact that, in this day and age, there is still animal experimentation going on.
I believe that we need to find a way to end it, and that dialogue is the way to achieve it. I also believe that all creatures have a right to life and quality of life. That includes those people we don't agree with.
Any organisation that advocates intimidation and violence to pursue their ends is phoney -- animal abuse, people abuse, they're both abuse, and abusers have no right to preach. And as for preaching, I'm confused about "you reap what you sew": would that be plain stitch or zig-zag?
So thank you, NIO representatives, for showing your true colours. I'm going to forward your colourful comments to the organisations I'm involved with, and my guess is you're about to lose a lot of friends...
Thank you so much, Theresa. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your comment.
Ah, so Alex is for real. Meh, not worth my time, not with THAT kind of attitude anyway. Have a nice day/life/etc...
PS: I'm not an animal researcher per se (but only because of the way taxonomy works), but anytime you feel like busting my pseudo-nuts in, feel free to drop me an email. I myself am really itching to punch an animal rights terrorist in the face – nice stress relief and all that, y'know?
PPS: I hope you don't torture plants. Seriously, plants are wonderful beings, and it's quite hypocritical of you to put plants below yourself far enough to kill them for your personal pleasure (taste, etc). In other words, go starve yourself, for the good of humanity, please.
We would not need the animals if the militant animal-rights idiots would just volunteer to take the place of the animals! It would solve so many problems at one time.
If it is necessary to harm an animal to save a human life then so be it. I do not take this lightly. I will simply quote from Matthew 10:29-31.
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care.[a] 30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.